For those that can’t seem to get their car parked between the lines...

"WilliamsSW" (williamssw) 02/18/2020 at 12:23 • Filed to: Trucklopnik

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I just watched the green semi (with trailer), pull in from the right, do a u-turn, then back into that slot in door #5. Took about maybe 40 seconds total and he never once had to do any back and forth.

Pretty impressive- yeah these guys do it for a living, but still.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:32

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And they’ve been doing it forever without rear cameras or parking warning sensors, just big wing mirrors and kinesthetic sense. It’s a super power, I’m convinced.

Aremmes > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:35

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Yeah, when they’re good, they’re very, very good.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:37

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the one that always gets me is when some bozo in a Chevy Trax makes a right hand turn ( onto a street with two lanes going the same direction) and they take their turn so wide they end up in the left lane, not the curb lane. Then a garbage truck or box truck will take the same turn, and manages to stay in their lane.

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:38

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I really suck at backing with a trailer. Then again, I’ve done it maybe twice.

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:40

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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Chariotoflove 02/18/2020 at 12:42

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This can be learned, but requires thinking, which not all drivers do much of.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/18/2020 at 12:42

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Drivers = Morons

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Chariotoflove 02/18/2020 at 12:43

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Musk claims “sitting in the middle is better” though... Heh. One suspects he’s never driven a Kenworth for a living.

Having done it in a former life? Being able to distance reference from your strong side helps you set perspective on where the trailer is, while using the “weak side” mirror to check clearance.

The idea that “being in the middle”, no matter how many cameras you have, is better?  ...is  likely to be a huge fail. We’ll see how it plays out.

I always giggle when I hear people bitch about the “terrible drivers in the big trucks”... there is no harder working group of people in this country, and they are damn skilled at what they do. It makes me sad that a bunch of VCs in Menlo Park are trying to put them out of work.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Aremmes 02/18/2020 at 12:44

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Really not that difficult with some practice and a desire to be excellent. Which is not to take away from inherent talent ... What we have here is not an example of driving, but if piloting .

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/18/2020 at 12:44

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I hate people who do that. A few weeks ago someone made a right on red while I had a green left turn arrow, giving me right of way. Of course they turned into the left lane, cutting me off and nearly hitting me. Jackass...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 02/18/2020 at 12:48

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractrix

It’s as ymptotal.

For Sweden > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:53

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Parking between the lines is for dorks, cops, and narcs

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/18/2020 at 12:54

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What is this I can’t even...

functionoverfashion > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:54

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I got very, very good at backing up trailers when I worked at a marina. Very satisfying to do it well in front of others who are struggling with it, e.g. at every public boat ramp ever. Even now, I can look at a space and see the movements required to make certain moves with a truck and trailer, before even starting to move. Nothing like repetition. 

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/18/2020 at 12:54

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The people complaining about truck drivers are usually the ones doing stupid stuff to put themselves in bad situations around said trucks.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 12:56

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When I backed the U-haul trailer into a spot when I returned it I think I impressed the guy. He didn’t even look over the trailer at all before telling me I was all good to go. For reversing trailers, if the tongue to axle is longer than the wheelbase of the vehicle it’s easy. I learned with a full size long bed truck and a woodsplitter. I had about three feet from starting to go sideways to completely boned. The first time I got to a more balanced configuration of a 2 horse trailer and an XJ Cherokee it was so easy it blew me away. 

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > ttyymmnn 02/18/2020 at 12:57

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European trailers are setup with such a focus on maneuverability that it’s incredible. In the US the focus is on weight distribution.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 02/18/2020 at 12:59

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If a tractor pulls in an exactly straight line, and the trailer starts out at an angle to the path of the tractor, the trailer will never line up behind the tractor so long as the path of the tractor is perfectly straight, all considerations of friction and traction aside. I discovered the tractrix concept on my own, though 300 years after the first guy did. I went to my math professor and said, “Hey, if you pull a trailer in a straight line...” and Dr. Smith said, “Oh, you’re talking about the tractrix. ”

ttyymmnn > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 12:59

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To be fair, Europe has many more Medieval towns with crazy tight streets to maneuver through. Here in America, we like to go in straight lines. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 02/18/2020 at 13:03

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W here you are, do you have the right of way to the point that if you wound up in curb lane from your left hand turn with the advance, would you be in the right? I know where I am that’ s not the case, although lots of people don’t seem to understand that. If that were allowed other places I would understand why people seem to genuinely think they are in the right.

I really wonder why some people have such a fascination with  not being in their lane/within the lines (not that I’m under the impression your car will explode if you cross a solid line, but some people seem to try to do it). Whether it be turning a two lane roundabout into one lane by straddling the middle lane, crowding the lane to your left when passing something WELL on the shoulder, or going out of your way to park across several spaces if the lot is not packed (Dodge Rams with trailers are the worst for that imo). I will never understand it. 

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/18/2020 at 13:06

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I’ll take your studied word at it...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/18/2020 at 13:06

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So, Vic talk: I woke up on Sunday morning and suffered a crippling wave of buyer’s remorse. Like I should have chucked the Vic into a dumpster and written it off then and there, once I got it home. I’m going to be like three grand into it for a car I don’t even want. I think of the things I might have bought with the money, like a rifle that I covet, or a new safe, or parts for Rusty... Add to that the fact that the market is glutted  with Vics and the only thing my Vic has going for it is low mileage. So I’m going to make it complete, paint it a solid non-cop color and market it as a sleeper when tax refund season rolls around. (The 3.55 LSD rear end is inbound...)

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 13:07

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Seems to be hit or miss.  The vast majority can stick it wherever (heyo) but the ones that appear to have never driven any form of motorized conveyance before, let alone one the size of a house, are the ones you remember.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/18/2020 at 13:11

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I don’t know off the top of my head, but I imagine I’m only supposed to turn left into the leftmost lane, just as a right turn should only end up in the rightmost lane.

People in my town don’t know how to drive though.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 02/18/2020 at 13:14

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I stink too, because I haven’t done it all that often. 

WilliamsSW > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 02/18/2020 at 13:15

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Yeah - that’s the view out my office window in the photo.  Trucks are in and out all day - most pretty good, some not so hot.  This guy (shout out to R&L Carriers) was the best I’ve seen. 

WilliamsSW > functionoverfashion 02/18/2020 at 13:17

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This guy knew exactly where he wanted to go, each step of the way. No wasted motion and quick, too.

Years of practice I’m sure.

WilliamsSW > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/18/2020 at 13:21

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There are people in Silicon Valley trying to put us all out of work, I think.

As I recall from my younger days, the location of the kingpin on a semi makes them handle differently in reverse than a typical pickup truck hauling a boat, doesn’t it?  I know it’s more stable going forward, but I think they’re different in reverse too?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 13:21

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yeah, back when I was doing it in a former life— we used to giggle about the “Oklahoma Bridge Law” and how it affected truck geometries. I had a driver who’d always slide his fifth wheel back (making him over-length) for the better ride, then slide it back up on the Mack for the scales.

https://www.hendrickson-intl.com/Bridge-Laws

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 13:26

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Yeah, certainly if you slide your fifth wheel all the way back you get a completely different “sense” of how to manipulate the front of the trailer (aka the kingpin location) to put the rear where you wanted it.  I always liked the short position, since your “butt GPS” was closest to the kingpin to put it where you wanted it.

Some of those guys are damn good at it too.

I noted in the other comment a guy who used to drive for the family who’d always keep his fifth wheel all the way back for a gentler ride. Fortunately, modern seats are much, much better.

cream wobbly > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/18/2020 at 13:37

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...or they’re complaining about the much smaller, last-mile trucks and can’t tell the difference

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 13:38

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I learned to back a trailer before I was legal to drive. My buddy’s dad put us to work whenever I went over to their house. The rule was that the chores had to be done before we could go goof off. They had a big shop where they did truck repairs, so there was always a shop to sweep, tools to be put away, welding to be done (!), or trailers that had to be moved.   The truck I learned on was an early-80s 1-ton chevy with a flat bed and the first trailer I moved was a gooseneck flatbed big enough to haul a dozer. I always felt like I was pretty good at it. Then I saw this:

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/18/2020 at 13:41

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That’s not even fair right there. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 13:43

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It is. Although some of th e plates are fore/aft adjustable, they are usually located between the two rear axles. That means the rear pivot point of the truck is the same as the front point of the trailer, so movement left or right doesn’t really move the front of the trailer . With a bumper hitch, movement to the left or right of the truck produces the opposite movement in the front of the trailer. In other words, small changes in direction with the tow vehicle creates bigger changes in direction in the trailer.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 13:46

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The US rules allow for safer towing at higher speeds - an important consideration when the distances are considerably farther.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 13:47

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Short trailers are definitely much harder to back in. You’re right about the u-haul trailers. They have absurdly long tongues.

WilliamsSW > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/18/2020 at 13:48

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Yeah - was trying to remember back to my mechanical engineering college course on control theory. The location of the kingpin relative to the rear axle is critical  - behind it is unstable, ahead of it is stable, and about right over it is a balance for a semi driver. 

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/18/2020 at 13:48

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There is a saying:

In the US, 100 miles is not a long distance.

In Europe, 100 years is not old.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/18/2020 at 13:51

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It’s due to the surge brakes that is built into them. When the trailer shifts forward it compresses a cylinder that acts as a brake pedal’s master cylinder. 

ttyymmnn > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 13:51

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There are 830 miles of interstate highway from Beaumont to El Paso. You’d cross three or four countries (or more) in that distance in Europe. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 13:56

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I’ve pulled a lot of U-hauls over the years. In the box trailers, o nly two largest sizes, 5x10 & 6x12, have surge brakes. The smaller ones still have really long tongues for their size. 

3point8isgreat > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 02/18/2020 at 14:26

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See I had the opposite experience my first time pulling a Uhaul.  I remember cursing up a storm just trying to get close enough to an air pump at a gas station.  Or freaking out that I was stuck in a small hotel parking lot.  Granted it was my first time ever pulling a trailer.

atfsgeoff > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/18/2020 at 14:48

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This man deserves a raise

TheRealBicycleBuck > atfsgeoff 02/18/2020 at 14:51

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I always wondered if they were paid by the load. Having an extra load or two in a day would make a big difference in his paycheck!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/18/2020 at 15:04

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I had that problem at my old office all the time. The guy in front of me would make his wiiiide right turn and then nearly cut me off because I turned directly into the right lane. They don’t seem to understand why I honked at them as I have to swing around to the left to avoid getting the front of my car chopped off. Just pick a frigging lane and stick with it - you don’t need (or have a right to)  both, especially if you're in a typical car and not a semi...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/18/2020 at 19:28

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Driving truck used to get some respect, but there are a huge number of incompetents nowadays. And I think automation would be an easy thing for backing up. Sensors on the corners of the trailer and certain standard sensors in the truck and snap .

Urambo Tauro > WilliamsSW 02/18/2020 at 19:32

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I spent some time as a porter at a RV dealership, and getting good at mov ing those things around was SO satisfying. I’d get back in my own car at the end of the day knowing that I could do just about anything with it, being so much easier to maneuver.

The key was to get acquainted with the pivot points (not just the placement of the trailer wheels, but also the hitch pivot, being eith er over the truck’s rear axle or out behind the bumper),   while being mindful of how each movement could swi ng the trailer’s bumper around. Once you got the hang of that, and had selected a space suitable for backing into, you could trust tha t if you got SUPER-close on the one side that you could see , you wouldn’t have to worry so much about th e other side.

functionoverfashion > WilliamsSW 02/19/2020 at 09:47

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That is so satisfying.

One of the things I did with the marina was backing pontoon boats on a big trailer into a building for storage - we’d unload with a forklift inside the building. I had it down precisely, where I had to pull up to, how far from the building, how close to the nearby retaining wall, how far past the door to make the swing, etc. so I could do it in one pass every time. The placement was different between two trucks we had, because one had a longer wheelbase, and worse turning radius. I also had to get the placement right inside the (relatively) dark building from outside in bright light; my stopping point was with the whole truck inside.

Not the same, but kinda. Doing it once would probably take more than one pass, and some double-checking behind me. Doing it 100 times in a month it got to be automatic. 

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/19/2020 at 17:11

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This is a tricky one I had to think on it. you absolutely lose money if you dump it (unless I don’t know the market for these?), and like we’ve said it would take a LOT of work to make this presentable to a normal car buyer, let alone close to what you would want to get back. I would say try to find some way to enjoy it/use it as that may be your best ‘value’, but if you just don’t like it at all, then that’s money just sitting. Maybe you could capitalize on it being from the south and hopefully salt state rust free?

I’d say that or make it into a death kart. Fun (so long as you keep it away from most people and don’t use it a lot),   it won’t cost you anything else, you can sell any body panels worth anything, and if you don’t hack it up someone may see the potential for parts/a body swap. Idk how much you can take off without getting roadkill with it though (except the hood, roadkill says that has to go first) 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 02/19/2020 at 17:59

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Roadkill. I just watched their latest installment last night and I am in fear of losing interest in the franchise generally. The stuff they’re doing is just so pointless and wasteful. Yes, with a name like Roadkill , what would I expect? And the guy with the crappy Vic in the driveway and the preceding discussion, who am I to say to Freiberger and Finnegan, “Grow up, guys,” but it’s like, “Grow up, guys.” I gave up 46 minutes of a busy evening yesterday to watch the latest episode and I came away feeling like I had squandered precious time. (Though the subject matter expert they had on really knew his stuff and was delightful to watch...) I think they’re getting too big and losing their original quaintness. Factor in that there is ZERO WAY to stay in touch with them, to submit a comment or to send an email, even to an intern, and the fact that they continually gloss over the astronomical cost of the parts they squander each time. Losing their mojo, says I.

As for Crappy Vic, the 3.55 posi rear end ($400, LKQ) has arrived and I need to go and fetch it... Maybe add a line lock because I’ve been wanting to do one of those, drive it a bit, and sell it at a loss. That’s where I’m leaning right now. We’ll see how it goes.